When we talk about the cost of probate, strictly speaking the answer should be about what the court will charge you to process the probate application. To me, though that answer is essential, it's not the whole picture. The other half of the picture is the fee charged by the lawyer. In this post I'll look at both.
First of all, court fees (otherwise known as probate fees). If you apply for probate, there is no way to avoid paying a fee, even if you don't use a lawyer. Each province and territory is different and a chart of the court probate fees by province is shown at the end of this post. There is no fee or a very low fee for smaller estates. The areas of Canada that have a maximum fee are Alberta ($400) and Quebec ($65). In every other province and territory, the fee continues to increase as the size of the estate increases and there is no upper limit. This is one of the main reasons individuals like to do estate planning - they'd rather arrange things so that the money ends up with their families and not the "taxman".
Secondly, lawyer's fees. Again, they change from one place to another. It's not unusual for a lawyer to charge a percentage of the estate (up to 2% , but less for larger estates). However, it's more common that a lawyer will charge by the hour. This is because it's not always possible at the beginning of a matter to determine how long it's going to take to do the job. "Getting probate" is a complicated process if the deceased owned property that needs to be appraised, or had accounts in several banks and brokerages, or owned assets overseas.
Alberta
|
$25 for
estates under $10,000
$100 for
estates between $10,000 and $24,999
$200 for
estates between $25,000 and $124,999
$300 for
estates between $125,000 and $249,999
$400 for
estates of $250,000 or more
|
British
Columbia
|
$0 for
estates under $10,000
$208 for
estates between $10,001 and $25,000
$6 for every
$1,000 (or part of $1,000) by which the value of the estate exceeds $25,000
but is not more than $50,000
Plus $14 for
every $1,000 (or part of $1,000) by which the value of the estate exceeds
$50,000
|
Manitoba
|
$50 for the
first $10,000
$6 for every
$1,000 by which the value of the estate exceeds $10,000
|
New Brunswick
|
$5 for each
$1,000
|
Newfoundland
and Labrador
|
$85 for the
first $10,000
$5 for every
$1,000 by which the value of the estate exceeds $10,000
Plus $50 for
the probate Order
|
Northwest
Territories
|
$25 for
estates under $10,000
$100 for
estates between $10,000 and $25,000
$200 for
estates between $25,000 and $125,000
$300 for
estates between $125,000 and $250,000
$400 for
estates worth $250,000 or more
|
Nova Scotia
|
$70 for
estates under $10,000
$176 for
estates between $10,000 and $25,000
$293 for
estates between $25,000 and $50,000
$820 for
estates between $50,000 and $100,000
Plus $13.85
for each $1,000 (or part of $1,000) by which the value of the estate exceeds
$100,000
|
Nunavut
|
$25 for
estates under $10,000
$100 for
estates between $10,000 and $25,000
$200 for
estates between $25,000 and $125,000
$300 for
estates between $125,000 and $250,000
$400 for
estates worth $250,000 or more
|
Ontario
|
$5 for each
$1,000 for the first $50,000
Plus $15 for
each $1,000 (or part of $1,000) by which the value of the estate exceeds
$50,000
|
Prince Edward
Island
|
$50 for
estates up to 10,000
$400 for
estates from $10,001 to $100,000
Plus $4 for
each $1,000 (or part of $1,000) by which the value of the estate exceeds
$100,000
Plus closing
fee of 0.2%
|
Quebec
|
$0 for
notarial wills
$65 for
non-notarial wills
|
Saskatchewan
|
$7 for every
$1,000 (or part of $1,000) of estate value
|
Yukon
|
$0 for
estates up to $25,000
$140 for
estates that exceed $25,000
|
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI have a quote of $2,500 cost to probate a single piece of property in Canada worth $25,000. Is this reasonable?
Thank you
Prices for probate vary place to place, as I've said in the above post, but yes I think that quote is reasonable. I would suggest that you make sure you understand whether this quote is JUST the probate, which takes the property out of the hands of the deceased and into the name of the estate, or whether it is the probate PLUS the transfer out of the name of the estate and into the name of a beneficiary or buyer. In law these are two distinct steps. Most lawyers will charge you additional fees for the second part of that transaction.
ReplyDeleteAlso make sure you know whether that $2,500 is "all-in", meaning fees, disbursements and taxes are all included. Most lawyers will quote you a fee, then add on the disbursements. In your case the disbursements would include a court probate fee, fees at the Land Titles Office and the usual disbursements like photocopies. Ask questions to find out exactly what your disbursements will be and whether they are included in your quote. Also find out whether there will be GST or PST.
In looking at what it costs to probate a $25,000 estate, you have to take into account the lawyer's fee and the probate (court) fee.
In Alberta, lawyers base their probate fees on a suggested fee schedule. Using this schedule is voluntary so lawyers can charge more, but most do not. The fee schedule says that to apply for the probate, a lawyer can charge $2,250 + 1/2 % of the estate (because the value is less than $150,000). So that adds up to $2,250 + $125, which equals $2,375. That's pretty close to the $2,500 you were quoted even before the probate fee is added in.
I can tell you that as a general rule, lawyer's fees are higher in larger cities and lower in smaller towns, so take that into consideration when reading this answer.
Hope this helps!
Lynne
My father just died. I have been PoA and am sole executor. There are a few small bequests and the residue of the estate (no property) is to me and my sister. Although it is a reasonable size, it is pretty straightforward, consisting of about 4GICs and an income fund. I had already done most everything necessary to wind up his affairs short of filing for probate and the final tax bill before I called an estate lawyer. The lowest estimate I got is $17,500, two others for upwards of $35,000. This seems ridiculous to me. I understand it relates to the 1% but I can't see that there is anywhere near 40-plus hours' worth of work.
ReplyDeleteIs filing for probate so difficult that I couldn't do it myself?
If you decide to apply for the probate yourself, you have an advantage over many others who take that step, simply because you are already so familiar with your father's assets and debts, having acted under his Power of Attorney.
ReplyDeleteIf you go into this with your eyes open, you can probably do it yourself. Just remember that the paperwork involved is plentiful and meticulous. It's time-consuming. It's not the kind of thing where you can just leave blanks empty if you're not sure what goes in them.
To my knowledge there is no Probate Kit or Guide available to Albertans, though I am in the process of preparing one that will be available through Self-Counsel Press in the spring. Since you can't wait that long, I suggest you contact the Queen's Printer and purchase a set of probate templates.
You will have to fill in all of the documents and schedules, sign them, get them commissioned and then file them with the Clerk of the Surrogate Court, which is part of the Queen's Bench of Alberta. At that point you will also pay the court fee, which will be in the range of $200 to $400 depending on the value of the estate.
The Clerks who work there are very knowledgeable and helpful, but they are also pretty strict, and they won't give your application to a judge until they deem your documents to be ready. Be prepared for your application to be rejected at least once before you get it through.
I'd like to give you a tip that will save you headaches. When you fill in the inventory (the NC7 document) make sure all values that you include are the value as of date of death. For example, don't use a bank statement or GIC statement that shows the balance as of a month ago. This goes for debts too. Most people neglect to put down the debts that were owing on the date of death because they've "already paid it". Even if you have paid it, it was still a debt on the date of death and it has to be included. So do funeral expenses.
This is more important than you might realize, as the exact value on the inventory is used for doing tax returns.
Best of luck with it. Let me know how it turns out.
Lynne
Thank you for the above information. I shared a joint account with my father and I understand that joint accounts are not part of probate. All his debts, including the funeral expenses are paid out of that account, which is substantial. Is it therefore permissible to enter "none" in the item about debts?
ReplyDeleteHi Marge,
ReplyDeleteThe inventory that you have to complete on an estate must give a snapshot of your father's financial picture on the day he passed away, therefore you have to list any debts that were payable on that day. This is true even if they have since been paid.
Funeral expenses are a bit of a different creature. There was no debt for funeral expenses on the day your father passed away. However you have to show them as a debt on your inventory.
You are right that joint accounts are not normally shown on an inventory. Be careful with this joint account. The law regarding intergenerational accounts, such as yours, is changing. Sometimes, when the right to survivorship is challenged by another beneficiary of the estate, the courts are requiring the surviving person to pay the account into the estate to be divided. What happens in your case will depend on the specific facts.
Joint accounts between parents and child are common, but extremely dangerous and troublesome to estates.
Lynne
Hi Marge,
ReplyDeleteMy mother just passed away and the only inheritance is her house. I am the executor of her will (I was her POA as well). My brothers and I are the only inheritors and there has never been another will written as we were given a copy when it was originally written.
Do we have to probate the will? We are not in disagreement of anything. We have a small account with monies to pay any personal taxes and house taxes and bills until home is sold.
Char
Hi Char. It's certainly refreshing to hear about an estate where everyone is agreeing on things. Kudos to you and your brothers! As for whether you need probate, that depends on the title to the house. If it is in your mother's name alone, then yes you will have to apply for probate.
ReplyDeleteLynne
Hi Lynne,
ReplyDeleteMy grandmother died in BC with a very small estate. The only intangible asset she held with any value was a mineral right title in Alberta. I have 2 questions: 1) Does her estate need to go through probate in BC and Alberta, or will Alberta recognize BC's probate order? and 2) There were no liquid assets in her estate, so how do the probate fees get paid? If the executor pays for them, how would they be reimbursed?
Thanks in advance!
As you may know, a mineral title is treated as real estate. If the estate has already been probated in BC, you will likely have to re-seal it in Alberta. The provinces don't generally accept each other's Grants of Probate. If the estate wasn't probated in BC - and you mentioned the estate is small so perhaps it wasn't - then you may be able to appy for probate in Alberta but not BC. The Alberta rules of court state that the probate should be applied for where the person resided at death, but that it's also permissible to apply where the deceased didn't live, but had property.
ReplyDeletePaying the fees might be a problem. If there isn't any money in the estate, then there isn't anything to reimburse the executor. Normally in a situation like this, the asset in question is sold to pay expenses and debts, as they must be paid before any beneficiaries receive anything, but it's pretty hard to sell a mineral title.
Lynne
Thank you so much for the quick response - very helpful!
ReplyDeleteGood morning Lynne,
ReplyDeleteOur mother passed away last week. There are only two surviving children which is my sister and myself. We are both named as executors. Her estate consists of about $80,000 in investments with her insurance company. My sister and my mother had a joint bank account so that my sister could pay bills etc. We had set up transfers from her investments on a monthly basis to cover her expenses. My question is, do we have to go through probate or could we just transfer the balance of the investments to my mothers/sisters account and then distribute according to the will. Everyone is in agreement. Thank you for any advice you my have.
Jerry
My mother is in a nursing home, I am the power of attourney general and personal, she made a will in 2007 but I am unable to find it. I don't know if she is competent to do another...what happens now? Am I still able to all things such as sell the home under the power of attourney general since she is still alive
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteIf your mom's will can't be found and she can't make another, her estate will end up being distributed according to intestacy laws of your province or territory. You or one of your siblings might have to apply to the court to be appointed as administrator of the estate.
Before giving up on finding the will, make sure you've looked absolutely everywhere - the bank safe deposit box, the lawyer's office, the person she named as executor, drawers and closets at home. Perhaps look at her cheque book or credit card statement for 2007 to see if you can see an entry for paying a lawyer - that way you may find the original will, or at the very least a copy of it.
When an original will can't be found, it is sometimes possible to probate a copy (ask a lawyer for help if you plan to do that).
In the meantime, the lack of a will doesn't impact your ability to act under the Power of Attorney. The will doesn't do anything while your mom is alive. If your mom is not going to be living in her house again, yes you can sell it and invest the sale proceeds in her name. Once your mom passes away, you will no longer have legal authority under the Power of Attorney.
Lynne
Hi my mother passed away last week, she had a valid will and had pre-arranged her funeral and paid for it. Her only assets are her home,chequing/savings account and a small life insurance policy.
ReplyDeleteShe did not will the home to any of her 4 children. Her estate went into probate, therefore the estate is to pay for utility and tax bills. My mother had no debt. My question is does the house need to be sold for the estate to be settled and the will to kick in? My brother lived and took care of my ailing mother for the past 10 years. I would like to give him time to grieve and make futur plans to establish himself elsewhere. I don't understand why her estate went into probate because she owed nothing. Is it possible to by-pass the sell of the house to settle the estate if all 4 children are in agreement? By the way, I am not executor of the will, I just have concerns that my mom's last wishes be honoured.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to hear about your mom. But I'm really happy for your sakes that you and your siblings are talking and managing her estate amicably.
The reason your mom's will went through probate is that she owned a house. The house can't be sold or transferred to the kids or anything else without probate.
It sounds as if your mom's will left the estate equally to the four children, leaving it up to you as a group to decide on the distribution of individual assets. This means that you do not have to sell the house if there is enough money to pay expenses and taxes without selling it. In the meantime, the title to the house will either sit in the name of the estate for a while or will be transferred into the names of the children.
Leaving the house in the name of the estate for a matter of months while your brother collects himself and makes plans doesn't worry me. But if it is left in the name of the estate for too long, problems may arise, particularly if the executor of the estate should pass away.
If you are all agreed, you certainly can put the house in the name of all of the children and agree not to sell it. However, before you do that, go to the blog post about joint tenancy and read the comments there to understand the kind of problems that almost always arise from this kind of arrangement. How long will it be before someone wants to sell his/her share while the others don't want to sell, or someone realizes that if they pass away there is nothing to hand on to their children, or wants to move in to "their share" of the house?
It may seem simple to put all names on because all you do is sign a piece of paper, but believe me, unwinding the arrangement is signficantly harder. Think carefully about it and talk it through thoroughly with your siblings before you all agree to this.
Best of luck with the estate.
Lynne
Lynne
ReplyDeleteMy father and mother recently passed away a few days apart. They both had wills, and named me as Executor. Both wills have a clause disenheriting my sister and her children, which leaves me soul beneficiary. So far my sister and I are working amicably, dividing mememtos without dispute, but she has made comments that her children should be getting more than momentos. I will be applying for probate. The estate is not large - under $350,000, but I do fear that my sister will possibly object that she was disinherited.
I am confident that I can submit the probate application forms myself (waiting for your book), but was wondering if you recommend I hire a lawyer to prepare me for if my sister objects. Or rather - would you recommend I wait the 6 months after probate is granted to see what she does?
thank you
Lisa
Hi Lisa,
ReplyDeleteIf you were to see a lawyer before submitting your documents, it would make no difference to the application for probate. The documents wouldn't be any different. If your sister is going to object, she will do so after you file for probate. She will have to file documents of her own setting out her claim. So I think I'd go ahead and apply for probate.
Having said that, it wouldn't hurt to know which lawyers deal with estate disputes so that if she does file something later, you can act quickly.
Lynne
Hi Lynne
ReplyDeleteMy Mother's only asset is a joint bank account with me. I have POA and am her Executor and have looked after her financial affairs and other needs for many years.
At the time of her death I would like to pay the bills, file the taxes, and divide the remainder with my two brothers(the will calls for equal division of assets between the three of us).
I have a good relationship with my brothers and the amount involved is not significant to any of us. They are agreeable to this course of action. I recognize that they could challenge this action at a later date and am willing to accept that risk.
Is this course of action legal?
If there are no assets beyond the joint bank account is there any need to probate the will?
Thank you,
Is there a list that states exactly what debts can be listed, and which ones cannot, on the NC7?
ReplyDeleteHiLynne, we are living in B.C.
ReplyDeleteMy mom has a house that the value is way higher than the time she bought. Q1. if she wants to give it to me and my sister, we both living in the house, before anything happen. Will that trigger any tax. capital gain etc.. Q2. if she leave it asis, what it will be happened if she pass away with the will for equal to us. As we sell the house or not, what is the different? Thanks for your time.
Hi Lynne,
ReplyDeleteYour blog is very informative.
I live in BC and my mother passed away recently. She had invested in some commercialy property with my cousin's firm (her nephew). A number of months before her death, my cousin sold this property and then held the funds for her while he looked for another suitable investment. Then a couple of months before her death, my cousin had found another commercial investment and the paperwork was put into the names of my brother and me. (not anything joint with our mother and she agreed to this)This was done as it was obvious my mother was quite ill and we wondered how long she would last)Since this asset wasn't in my mother's name at the time of death, is it subject to probate fees? Thanks for your time!
In Nova Scotia is there a time limit to probate a will. My sister and I were left a farm and she is the excecutor but has not probated the will in six years. She and I are to go halves on the expense of this but she keeps putting it off. How should I handle this and what if one of us dies in the mean time?? Thank you
ReplyDeleteI understand probate costs depend largely on the product of all the value of the contested will, legal fees and of course your attorney's rate, which varies per state.
ReplyDeleteMy Aunt passed away a few months ago in BC. The executor of the will was her sister who had passed away a year before. The beneficaries are myself, 2 other nieces and one nephew. I am applying to become administrator (all others are in agreement with this). My question is how do I prepare a statement of assests (as part of the application process) when the financial institutions will not deal with me until I am the administrator? Also, do I only pay for the administration application or am I required to pay on the value of the estate? I am trying to do this on my own and am using the BC Probate Guide for information on administering an estate.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your posts, I'm sure it really answers a lot of questions out there!
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree with you, probates are costly, most especially when a person is not paying attention to what is really happening behind the scenes. Even some of us don't know much about legal wills or very few ideas are into our minds we must keep tract of the record and must always communicate with the lawyers... other factors must be included of course, you must ask you most trusted lawyer to find out...
My brother-in-law passed away recently and left a will with my husband as executor. He left everything to his spouse. Since the house was jointly owned it is not part of the estate. Also, his RIF abd TFSA had her as beneficiary on the FI paperwork so again that is not part of the estate, is that correct? The only things then are a small bank account and a small investment account-worth less than $2000. His sole Visa had insurance on it so it was paid out by that (only debt). Is probate required for such a small amount?
ReplyDelete